MEGAN: --now. GABBY: Oh, I didn't know it did that. MEGAN: I think that is now recording. [CHUCKLING] So yeah, my name is Megan. GABBY: Yeah, and I'm Gabby. MEGAN: We're both freshmen, so-- IAN: Oh. Oh, nice. MEGAN: Yeah. IAN: OK, I didn't realize you were freshmen. Really cool. MEGAN: Mm. GABBY: Yeah, so we're both taking this class focused around the history of Loving House and how it came about and the history of sexuality groups on campus, really, for the last few decades. And now we're putting together a project on Loving House. And we heard you were a pretty big part of pushing for the creation. So that's why we thought it'd be a good idea to reach out to you. IAN: OK. Really cool. Could I ask who's the instructor leading it? MEGAN: Taylor Bernard. IAN: Oh, OK. Taylor is. MEGAN: Yeah. IAN: OK, cool. [INAUDIBLE]. GABBY: Do you know her from when you were at Cornell? IAN: Yeah, yeah, no. I absolutely adore Taylor. GABBY: How long ago were you there, by the way? IAN: I graduated in 2020. MEGAN: [INAUDIBLE] GABBY: OK. That's recent. IAN: Yeah, no, so I'm not that old. [CHUCKLING] Yeah, not too long ago. But now back in school as a PhD student. GABBY: Ooh, cool. For what? IAN: Sociology. GABBY: Very cool. MEGAN: Nice. GABBY: That's great. What school are you at now? IAN: UNC Chapel Hill. GABBY: Very nice. IAN: No, it's cool. This is my first semester, so in a way, also a freshman. GABBY: Sweet. So you're welcome to start wherever you'd like to start, if you want to tell us about what role you played in Loving House or how you related to it. IAN: Yeah, so I was one of the driving forces behind the Student Assembly resolution and the Residential Student Congress resolution that passed-- I forget which year it was, exactly. Maybe 2018 or 2017. And those resolutions were what was the student body's, I guess, call to action to the university administration that this was something students wanted, and this is something that [INAUDIBLE] why we think it needs to happen. And so I had gotten involved in this back at the end of-- in the spring of my freshman year. A senior had told me about, oh, this thing happened back in the '90s. And I [INAUDIBLE] decided that this was going to be my project for what I wanted to accomplish while I was at Cornell. GABBY: Great. And when you say thing that happened in the '90s, just to clarify, was-- IAN: And I mean the Student Assembly resolution and the-- GABBY: OK. So that was something that happened before you came? IAN: So back in '92, '93, students had tried to push a resolution through the Student Assembly calling for an LG-- then, it was an LGB living-learning unit. GABBY: OK. IAN: And that had been rejected by then President Rawlings. GABBY: OK. So basically-- IAN: Yeah. GABBY: --brought it up again and tried to push it forward again? IAN: Yeah, so I actually had been stalling in the research for it. And then I discovered-- one of the students that had been key to that resolution back in '92, Joe Barrios, had left a-- or, had donated a box to the Cornell Archives with the resolution and all these other details of what was happening on-- GABBY: Cool. IAN: --campus then. And when I found that, it was really transcendent in a way of connecting me back 25 years into the past to this moment, this key moment in Cornell LGBTQ history that-- because we're students, we're only there for four years. These things don't get passed down that far. And so it was really spectacular to encounter that and then to be able to be inspired by that and to use that to pass the resolution calling for it. And it very much felt like picking up a torch that had been waiting for a quarter of a century, lighting it, and finally carrying it across the finish line. GABBY: That is awesome. And just side note, did you then change it to LGBT or LGBTQ? Or how did that-- IAN: So in my research, I had found, other universities have their own name. LGB was definitely not going to stay like that. And even had it been passed and established back in the '90s, I doubt that name would have stuck until today, and rightfully so. Other universities do have different strategies or different ways of naming their LGBT living-learning units. I think Dartmouth calls theirs the Triangle House, which-- the triangle is another big pride symbol from before the HIV/AIDS epidemic. Other places call it, like, a rainbow house or a rainbow floor, which-- I thought a rainbow house is too on the nose, too conspicuous. So I wanted something that-- a name that was meaningful but wasn't necessarily incredibly obvious. And I came up with Loving House as a placeholder. I was a history major, so I always love a good reference to the past. And so Loving is a reference to Loving v. Virginia, which was the Supreme Court case that legalized interracial marriage. And so by coming up with the name of Loving House, it places it in this long struggle for political freedom, freedom to love, freedom to love who you want. GABBY: Yeah, I like that because it's not just about the LGBT community. It's-- IAN: Yeah. GABBY: --intersectional in that. IAN: Yeah, no, and that's why I found it so attractive. And I had-- we had put it out to a vote to the members for the first year of-- or, we had tried it a couple times. If other people have names that they want to suggest, please feel free. Please propose. And people had-- it seemed like they liked the name the Loving House. GABBY: How many people were a part of that? IAN: Which part? GABBY: The organization that chose the name. IAN: So I put the name down as a placeholder, and then it stuck the whole way through. GABBY: Cool. IAN: Yeah, you would think that there would have been more of a focus group around it. But there actually wasn't. GABBY: And did you work with a lot of other people? If you started this whole thing when you were a freshman, did you get a whole group of people as time went on? IAN: I wish I could say that it was a whole community effort. But it was so much more of a small, close-knit group. There's a few friends who helped me research. And I have to say, Joe Anderson, who's also class of 2020, was such a critical partner and ally in accomplishing this. And then, also, once the Student Assembly passed the resolution, it entered a phase where, OK, it's a few key students and administrators sitting around a table, discussing, what is this going to look like when it opens? GABBY: Yeah. And just to get a timeline, when did you figure out this was actually something that was going to happen [INAUDIBLE]? IAN: So the resolution passed, I want to say, November of my sophomore year. GABBY: OK. IAN: Or maybe early November, late October. I forget exactly when. But then the resolution itself didn't get approved by President Pollack until a few months later. And so we were a little concerned about delays. But the first committee to decide where the house-- and I think the first committee focused on, where would it be? What location and what kind of structure do we want the program-- the new program has to have? And that [INAUDIBLE] spring of my sophomore year. So the timeline was actually a lot faster than I was expecting, because when I first started working on it freshman year, I really never imagined that by senior year, I would be living there. Yeah, and credit where credit is due. The administration was really supportive, was way more supportive than I was expecting, especially-- a lot had changed since the '90s. But to go from '92, where the administration was adamantly opposed to creating new program houses, and especially this one, in particular-- to go from that to 2018, 2019, where the university administration was very much on board-- Because Joe Anderson and I had originally proposed opening the Loving House in-- I want to say the building is called Edgemoor. There's an old frat house that the university owns that is now a residence over by the frats on West Campus. GABBY: OK. IAN: [INAUDIBLE] OK, we'll just take something. It only houses 20 or so people, and the university hopefully won't mind. And then we got to the committee, and the administration suggested, do you want Mews? And we were like, wait, that's an option? Yeah, and it's great because had it been in Edgemoor, it would have been complete-- it would have been inaccessible to first years. And that building is just so not accessible to people with mobility issues, and whereas Mews is accessible to first-- is just one of the most accessible dorms on campus. GABBY: Yeah, I was really surprised to figure out it was right there. IAN: Yeah. GABBY: I was going to ask about how that came about. So they suggested it? IAN: They suggested it, yeah, because we had a few allies who were working in Resident Student Life. GABBY: Sweet. That's great. And just, I guess, to shift the focus a little bit, why do you think it was so difficult and challenging to establish Loving House at Cornell in the first place? What do you think changed by the time you got there? IAN: I feel like some people said Cornell and universities are a microcosm for the country. And where the country was in terms of attitudes on LGBT rights was very different in '92 than it was in 2018. And yeah, '92 was-- that was the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic. And yeah, no, things were very different then. But I think as marriage equality was passed, and queer, gay, trans students became more visible on the university, I think the university administrators realized that they were failing their queer students, in a way. And Cornell has a really rich history of LGBT activism. I want to say Haven is one of the oldest LGBT student organizations in the country. And in a sense, it felt like, after the '90s, Cornell really fell behind other universities in really leading the way in LGBT activism on campus. And I think the interests of students and the administration aligned, where it's like, we can both benefit from this and really do right by our queer students-- or, do better . GABBY: Yeah. And do you think the change in who was running Cornell affected that? IAN: Yeah, it's so hard to say, because student undergraduates are just there for four years. And some of the administrators-- one particularly-- I want to say Julie Paige, who was, when I was there, I want to say, dean of off-campus housing. She had been a close mentee-- or a mentor, I mean-- of Joe Barrios, who was one of the students that led the pushback in '92. And she was still at Cornell when I was around. And I connected with her. And she's such a lovely person. And she had been in support of it back then. But I totally lost track of where I was going. [CHUCKLING] GABBY: No, I think it's really cool how there are administrators who are there for so long who see this whole process playing out. IAN: Yeah, no, there's so much more kind of a memory among different groups. Like, PhD students are at Cornell for around six years. So they get to see a little bit more than we do. GABBY: Yeah. And do you think Loving House serves the LGBT community the way you wanted it to or the way you think it was designed to? IAN: I was perfectly happy for it to become its own thing independent of what I wanted for it. At least when I was there, it seemed like it had become such a great place for trans first years and really key for the people who lived there, which I hadn't necessarily expected back when I first was on the committees, deciding how to structure it. But I was really happy that that's how it turned out. And I don't know how it's evolved since I left Cornell. One thing that I do hope it's doing is that-- I lived in the Language House, which is another program house. And I think one of the great things about program houses is that-- I forget exactly what it's called. But people who are not residents can get a membership there and participate in an event. And so I am hoping that that is being taken fully advantage-- or, is being utilized to the fullest extent to really be a place of community for residents and non-residents, because when I was at Cornell, freshman through junior year, there was just such a distinct lack of explicitly LGBT spaces on campus that I really hope that as many people as possible are really getting to participate and feel welcomed at the Loving House. GABBY: Yeah. Well, I can obviously, since I'm also a freshman-- I don't know too much about it, besides what I've learned in this class. But one of the interesting things is that of all of us in the class who are all queer-identifying in some way or another, only, I think, one of us lives in Loving House-- IAN: Oh, OK. GABBY: --which is-- it's either one or two or-- MEGAN: Yeah, it's, like, one or two. And there are a couple people who live in Mews, but just not in Loving House. Yeah, but neither of us live there, but we participate in the events and stuff. So-- IAN: Oh, OK. That actually makes me-- MEGAN: --it is doing that. IAN: --really happy to hear that you're out-of-house members. MEGAN: Yeah. GABBY: Yeah. And on one hand, I think it's really good that I can participate in it from outside of it. It was also interesting, though, to see that I didn't really know that was an option until I was already at Cornell. And then I was like, oh, this is something. And I had no idea it really existed. So I guess I want Cornell, moving forward, to put a little more effort into saying, like, this is an option for you guys, because I wasn't really aware of it, which I think is unfortunate because it would have been something I considered had I known more about it. MEGAN: [INAUDIBLE] IAN: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. GABBY: And I guess, to follow up with that, regarding Loving House and LGBT life at Cornell, which you've touched upon already, are you proud of how Cornell has changed since you attended, in the last few years? IAN: In some ways, yes. Judging where the seniors were when I was a freshman then and then when I, myself, was a senior, I do think things had changed in a positive direction in terms of openness and more dispelling of internalized homophobia. But there, of course, still remains a lot of issue-- or, remained a lot of issues by the time I left, [? where ?] I think the biggest one among them, or one of the biggest among them, is just how fragmented the community is, is that there isn't a lot of, or there isn't nearly enough, solidarity among the identities that fall under the LGBTQ+ umbrella. And then even within those identities, there isn't always a lot of solidarity there, either. GABBY: Yeah. IAN: Yeah. GABBY: And do you have any, I guess, ideas for how you hope that changes in the future or any things you see that might help with that that Cornell could establish moving forward? IAN: It's tough because Cornell is so-- there's so much going on and so busy that it's only really easy to organize a large group of people when there's something immediate and sudden and pressing. But then when there isn't that immediate, acute trigger for people to organize, it's very difficult to get people together and to actually push and create for something, which is a challenge that I encountered in advocating for the Loving House, is that [? there ?] is-- When I first started, there was no crisis. There was no immediate thing that was pushing for this. And I hope people-- I don't know. Living it now as a PhD student, there's just so much schoolwork. But I really hope that people can take a breather and realize, like, oh, this is important. This is stuff we have to gather for, even if we're not necessarily submitting a petition or advocating for something. Just getting together and being a community is, in its own right, really important. GABBY: Yeah, I completely agree. And I guess I do want to go back a little bit to when you were talking about the staff members that-- you talked about one administrator that was really helpful to you. Were there any other staff or administrators that were really good? IAN: There were a few really good ones. Some of their names escape me. [INAUDIBLE] had been so supportive from when I first talked with him. And I am so sorry, but I forget that I can't remember the name of the administrator in Residential Student Life that was-- it was the one who suggested Mews. Yeah. Oh, I can get her name. GABBY: Sweet. IAN: Or Taylor should know. Taylor should be-- GABBY: Cool. IAN: If you ask Taylor. GABBY: And was Taylor there helping during that as well, or was she a student or-- IAN: So I want to say Taylor's first semester on campus might have been when-- no, no, no, no. Taylor came to campus after the resolution was passed. GABBY: OK. IAN: And she was hired to be a resident director. But I don't think she had known that-- she hadn't known that she was going to be the resident director of Loving House when she, I think, first applied to the job. And yeah, so Taylor got involved relatively late, I think after-- at least the first committee had finished. And then there was a second committee that met. I think Taylor was there for that. Yeah, sorry if that was rambling. GABBY: No, you're all good. On the flip side of that-- IAN: Yeah. GABBY: --were there any administrators that were really difficult to deal with that didn't want-- IAN: Of course, there-- I think they did a good job of not necessarily showing that to our faces. GABBY: Good. IAN: Yeah, I'm not aware of much administrative pushback. I did know of other undergraduates that were resistant to the idea. And some of these people, themselves, were queer. GABBY: Huh. How come? IAN: I think the largest reason that some people had against the Loving House goes back to stereotypes of LGBT people and some stereotypes that queer people someti-- internalize themselves. And they're like, oh, that place is going to be-- it's just like, oh, everyone there is going to have sex with each other, and really just bad stereotypes. GABBY: Yeah. That's so interesting, though, because it seems like a lot of it is internalized homophobia [INAUDIBLE]-- IAN: Oh, yeah. GABBY: --pushing back against it. IAN: Yeah, there was, I think, a lot of opposition-- the opposition among queer people, I think. Maybe some people had valid opposition, perfectly valid opposition. But I think a lot of it was internalized homophobia. GABBY: So did people on campus, undergraduates, know what you are doing and have pushback against that or have their opinions known? IAN: Not really. It somehow flew under the radar until it-- yeah, it flew under the radar until, I think, spring of my sophomore year [INAUDIBLE] or maybe even later than that. I think maybe even my junior year. And by then, so many things had been decided. And with the way campus atmosphere is, I don't think anyone would have really publicly made a big show of opposing it. There was a big article in The Sun about it that reached out to people who had participated in the resolution back in '92. And after that article came out, I did get someone from a right-wing news organization that reports on college campuses reach out to me. And at first, I didn't know who it was. And I was like, yeah, of course I'll talk. And then I searched into where the person worked and realized what was going on and then blocked them and then unblocked them and just said, oh, you know what? I'd rather not talk. GABBY: That is unfortunate. IAN: Which is to say, always watch out when a random person messages you about interviewing them. I'm kind of kidding, but you know what I mean. It's-- GABBY: Cool. And-- MEGAN: Can you go more into how exactly you got involved? I know you mentioned finding the box and everything. But had you previously heard about it? How exactly did you come across it and decide that you wanted that to be your project? IAN: Yeah, so I had participated in a lot of Haven events and connected with, at that point, a senior. His name is Beckett Harney. And Beckett told me about it. He encouraged me to explore. And Beckett connected me to Joe Anderson, who was on the Student Assembly. And around that time, the LGBTQ rep on the Student Assembly seat had been vacant for a couple of semesters. And it had still been vacant fall of my sophomore year. And so I ran for that seat and got involved through student government. And in the meantime, I was doing research on this. And Beckett had mentioned something about the archives. So I thought I could find something there and, after a few trips, finally came across the box that Joe Barrios had left. MEGAN: Great. Thanks. And then had you previously thought about there being some sort of program house, or was it their idea that you followed, or were you like, huh, I wish there was some sort of housing? IAN: I think there was a mix of ideas of, oh, what should we pursue? Should it be more of a Greek organization? Should it be more informal? And I think, after several discussions, the consensus shifted towards program houses. A program house, I think, has so many advantages to it in that it's institutionalized. It's not going anywhere, if we were to try to just go in, because yeah, yeah, that was one of our first ideas was just getting [INAUDIBLE] our own, somehow getting the money to buy property and making that an LGBT house, which-- there's no way that would have been sustainable, whereas with a program house, it's in Mews. Mews isn't going anywhere. Loving House isn't going anywhere. It's found a good home. MEGAN: Yeah, definitely. Thank you. GABBY: And what do you think about it expanding? Because I know people have been talking about that to become larger and include more people. IAN: Yeah, that's one of the advantages of it being located in a dorm like Mews. If there's demand for it, I would be fully in support of it expanding. And one of the advantages of it being in a dorm like Mews is that if there is enough demand, presumably, it could just take [INAUDIBLE] take some rooms in the floor above the first floor of Mews and bleed or ebb and flow in the building as demand warrants it. That, at least, was, I think, one of the committee's hopes. GABBY: I'm thinking about if it wasn't-- you mentioned it being-- initially the idea of a frat house or some sort of informal thing. Besides the fact that that would be largely unsustainable in terms of money and the fact that it's not directly linked to Cornell, do you think that would have changed the social implications of it and how-- IAN: Yeah, that would have ended up serving a very different social niche for the community. It probably would have looked a little bit more like what the co-ops are for the LGBT community, except being more explicit, whereas the co-ops are just more incidental LGBT spaces. GABBY: I agree. That's why I like Loving House a lot, because it's a set, designated safe space that isn't going anywhere. I think that's a really good thing to have. IAN: Oh, it for sure is. MEGAN: And then I know, now, during move-in or in anything housing, it doesn't necessarily say Loving House. It's Mews just so that people who can't let their parents or whatever know don't have to. And it truly is safe. Was it like that as soon as it opened, or-- IAN: Yeah, that was the thing that we had considered. And we really wanted to make sure that students who weren't out to their parents or students who were discreet or just any other situation that would require them to not disclose that they were a member of Loving House-- we wanted them to be able to be there and participate. And so that had been something we were thinking of from the start. MEGAN: Very nice. OK, thank you. GABBY: That is great. I did not know about that. MEGAN: Yeah. GABBY: And what was the initial goal when you said, like, I want to take this and create it, what kind of space did you want to make? IAN: Oh, that's such a big question. I wanted an explicitly queer space on campus where people could really people who didn't necessarily feel welcome in most other parts of campus to really feel home there. And I viewed it as, I guess, maybe a stepping stone or a facilitator to queer actualization on campus. And so [INAUDIBLE] I really do hope that it is a part of queer students' self-actualization. GABBY: Great. And I don't know how much you followed up on how it looks since you left, but is there anything you'd want to change regarding Loving House or, in general, LGBT life at Cornell that hasn't been done yet that you either wish you had done before you left or that still hasn't been done now? IAN: I have unfortunately not followed up on what Loving House looks like these days. But as I said previously, I think, I guess, just more of a concerted effort to tackling the fragmentation of the LGBT community on campus and really building a more cross-cutting community in solidarity. GABBY: I also think that needs to happen. I know they've been holding some events recently. I don't know if it's specifically through Loving House or just through LGBT organizations on campus [INAUDIBLE]-- MEGAN: I think that might be Haven, but yeah. GABBY: OK. Yeah, because I know-- IAN: Yeah GABBY: --there's been events that have been bringing the community together. And I think it's quite cool. IAN: And Haven does lots of programs. At least when I was there, Haven did a ton of programming but I think, sometimes, had difficulty pulling in good numbers to all of its events. MEGAN: Right. Yeah, Loving House advertises a lot of their stuff. And they cross-advertise, so that's good. [INTERPOSING VOICES] IAN: Oh, sorry. Continue. MEGAN: Oh, they still have quite a few events. But with COVID, obviously, it makes it a lot harder. IAN: Yeah, I can't imagine. Yeah, no more food at events, I'm sure. MEGAN: We have gone back to having food at events, which is good. IAN: Oh, there's no-- yeah, OK. There's no food at events at Chapel Hill yet. I'm jealous. MEGAN: Oh, yeah. It's been very nice. IAN: And another hope of ours had been that Loving House could serve as a way for Haven to get more people involved, because other program houses on campus have similar relations with relevant student organizations, where the program house is a community space that brings in members of the student organization and vise versa. GABBY: Sorry, I'm muted. IAN: All good. GABBY: Are there any things you want us to know that you haven't really touched upon or anything we didn't ask about? Anything like that? IAN: Oh, this is tough. That's a tough one. Is there anything that you particularly want to know not related to the Loving House, just in general? GABBY: Ooh. Well, a few things. I'm currently trying to get some stuff moving here at Cornell myself. And it's hard. IAN: Yeah. GABBY: Stuff moves slowly. So I guess I would be interested in hearing more about how your assemblies worked and how that became a thing. How did you get from this idea to actually going up to the administration and ending up there? IAN: Yeah, no, it's not easy to navigate that. And that's part of why I really never thought that Loving House would open while I was still a student. I think getting involved in Haven in one way, working your way up to be one of the leaders in Haven. The Student Assembly is another way. I got incredibly lucky with befriending [INAUDIBLE], who just ended up knowing all the administrators [INAUDIBLE] working that [INAUDIBLE] yeah, just loved meeting with administrators and building those relationships. But it's not easy to get involved. But I think Haven or Student Assembly are-- those are the ways that I got involved and, speaking from experience, would recommend [INAUDIBLE]. MEGAN: How exactly-- GABBY: [INAUDIBLE] MEGAN: --Student Assembly-- what do those meetings look like? How-- IAN: So when I was there, it was Thursdays, 4:45 to 6:00, with the potential that the meeting gets extended. And I will say, Student Assembly discusses a lot of just irrelevant things. Not necessarily irrelevant. They're important to people-- some people. Each thing that gets discussed has its own audience. If you do get involved, I would say, just don't expect things to-- things will still move slowly, and there will still be obstacles. But it does grant you a little bit more access. And so I mean common things that-- And Student Assembly decides the student activity fee, which is a fee that all students pay. And it goes to support the vast majority of student programming on campus. So Loving House, for example, has its own fee for resident-- or, for members. And that goes to fund Loving House programming. GABBY: OK. IAN: Haven gets funded [INAUDIBLE] the student activity fee, which is determined by the Student Assembly. MEGAN: OK. IAN: And so that's the main thing Student Assembly does. But through there, you can also put together resolutions that call on the campus administration to do something. And President Pollack is technically required to respond. MEGAN: OK. IAN: So it can be, sometimes, a good thing to-- even if you know the administration is going to say no, it's sometimes good to get that in writing. GABBY: Sweet. Thank you. MEGAN: And then just, if there's nothing else that you want to add, just one last thing. What does the opening of Loving House mean to you? IAN: It was really so special because I started thinking about it and working at it freshman year and, as I had said, never really imagining that it would open while I was there or that I would get to live there. And when they were looking for-- or, when residency applications had opened, I thought, like, no, someone else deserves that spot more than me. And then Taylor was like, no, Ian, we want you to live here. And to have felt-- because I did end up connecting with Joe Barrios and a few other people who had been at Cornell back in '92. And to feel connected in this 25-year-- over 25-year, honestly-- history of LGBTQ activism at Cornell and to see this very bright moment in that history was very special. It was really incredibly special. MEGAN: Yeah. How many hours did you put towards this? IAN: Oh, who knows? MEGAN: I mean, did you spend-- I don't know. IAN: I'm a nerd. I'm a PhD student. So I didn't let the hours I put towards this detract from class. MEGAN: Well, that's good. That's good. IAN: But if I counted Student Assembly, which was part of the whole thing, that would really inflate the hours. MEGAN: Right. That's true. But outside of that. IAN: [INAUDIBLE] the hours. Maybe 36. Who knows? MEGAN: OK. All right. IAN: Probably more [INAUDIBLE]-- MEGAN: Yeah. IAN: It's more like, rather than the total of hours, just the length of time that I'd been working on it, because there were committee meetings during my sophomore year and then more fall my junior year, and involved getting up early in the mornings, at least fall my junior year, to go over to Mews and hash out what this project was going to look like. MEGAN: Right. Well, we appreciate your persistence. Definitely very cool. Even though I'm not actually a resident there, I think it's awesome. And-- IAN: Yeah, I'm legitimately happy hearing that you're both out-of-house members. MEGAN: Yeah, and it's cool because with the class, we're able to-- we get all the information on the Loving House staff. And so we can go to them and-- yeah. GABBY: Yeah, and part of the class involves attending events and participating in the events that Loving House and Haven have. So [INAUDIBLE]. MEGAN: Yeah, I think we have to go to two. So we went to these dine-and-dialogue things that were cool, and-- IAN: OK. MEGAN: Yeah. IAN: Cool. Really cool. Yeah, Haven used to do a really great big one around National Coming Out Day of-- I think it was called Coming Out Across Cultures. And people from all over campus would come and talk about, like, oh, what does coming out look like? What does it look like in different cultural contexts? MEGAN: That's cool. IAN: It was a-- GABBY: [INAUDIBLE] IAN: It was a cool event. MEGAN: Very nice. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. IAN: No, thank you. No, I'm really honored that you had reached out. And it's really special to be connected back to Cornell in this way. MEGAN: Mhm. Yeah, we're very excited for the project to be finished and to see the whole timeline of everything. IAN: Yeah, I would love to see what the finished product looks like as well. GABBY: Yeah, absolutely. [INTERPOSING VOICES] GABBY: I'm sure Taylor [INAUDIBLE] send it. MEGAN: Well, I think that's all. You gave us quite a lot. We appreciate it. And I hope you have a great rest of your night, and happy holidays. GABBY: Yes. IAN: Oh, thank you. You as well. And good luck finishing up the semester. GABBY: Thank you. MEGAN: Thank you. IAN: Take care. Have a good night. MEGAN: You, too. GABBY: Good night. MEGAN: OK. That was-- GABBY: That was good. MEGAN: That was good. I took a lot-- oh, I can stop this recording-- because I did it on Notability, so I was able to use the audio thing. So-- GABBY: Ooh, good. MEGAN: I also-- oh, let me stop recording this.