INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Okay. All right. So first, introduce yourself. When did you arrive at Cornell? And why did you choose to come to Cornell? TAYLOR: Sure! So my name is Taylor. I use she/her pronouns. I came to Cornell in July 2018, so right after I graduated with my Master's in Higher Education from Stony Brook University, to be the Residence Hall Director for Mews Hall. And did you say, "Why did I come to Cornell?" INTERVIEWER: Yeah. TAYLOR: So it was really during my undergraduate and graduate studies at Stony Brook, I was really interested in the first year experience. So I worked with their undergraduate colleges, which is separate from their "undergraduate" colleges or schools, but it's their first year experience program. So, which were called the undergraduate colleges. I'm sorry that that's all in the recording. [LAUGHTER] TAYLOR: But I really loved working with first year students, and I really loved collaborating with faculty. And when I saw that those were the biggest parts of being a Residence Hall Director in our first year community at Cornell, that intrigued me. And I just fell in love with the campus, and I decided to come. INTERVIEWER: Ohh. INTERVIEWER: We're glad you did. INTERVIEWER: Yeah, we are really glad you did. And how did your path intersect with Loving House and the founding of Loving House? TAYLOR: Sure. So shortly after I arrived on campus and started, like, onboarding into the RHD position for Mews, I was told that there was a proposal that was with the Vice President for Student and Campus Life, Ryan Lombardi's office, and that it was likely that there would be an LGBTQ living learning community placed in Mews Hall slated to be opened in Fall 2019. And so I didn't know that Loving House was going to be a thing when I accepted the job. So it was kind of like a "Surprise! You're doing this!" when I got here. And so that's kind of the path that brought me to Loving House. And then since then, I think I've been the biggest driving force of what it is, what we do, who we work with, recruiting the students. It's been nice to develop a vision and learn about best practices and ways to support the LGBTQ+ community, and put it into a living learning community, which is something that I actually was really passionate about when I was at Stony Brook. Like I did a lot of projects on best practices for living learning spaces, and it's almost like- It was one of those moments where everything happens for a reason. Like it just all fell into place perfectly. And I don't know if it was intentional or not to place me in Mews, and the people who placed me in Mews aren't here anymore. [LAUGHTER] But it just seemed like it was fate. Or it was like the perfect situation for me and Loving House. So yeah. INTERVIEWER: What does Loving House mean to you? TAYLOR: It's a hard question. I think it means hope, family, love, acceptance. Loving House has like, the impact that Loving House has had on me is to really challenge me to find ways to figure out where I fit into society. And I think that's the purpose of it for the students too, of just being in a space that when you walk into Loving House - when I walk into Loving house - I don't feel a binary. And I never knew what that meant until I was in that space, and I was just around students and faculty and staff who just were themselves authentically and in this vulnerable way that I'd never been surrounded by before. And it was so inspiring. And in some ways it's really good because it empowered me to think about who I am and be okay with that. But too, I think it can be really hard for people who have never thought about those pieces of their identity, seeing other people do it and be so confident about it, that it's almost like this identity development, like shock, right? You're operating in a very binary world and then you're in Loving House and it's not that. And so I hope that answered that question, but it's just like hope and love and acceptance and vulnerability in ways that I've never felt before. INTERVIEWER: That's really heartwarming. And kind of adding on to that, what structures and systems have you put in place to keep Loving House the space that it is and what is your vision for Loving House later on? I mean, I hope you're not leaving anytime soon, but what is the impact you want to leave? Yeah TAYLOR: Yeah. The biggest thing I want to leave with is, one, making sure that there is support from the University as a whole. And so something that I always challenge myself to think about with my peers and students is like when we say Cornell, Cornell should do this, what does that mean? Because Cornell is a place. It's a thing. But what do I mean when I say Cornell needs to care? And when I say that, what I mean is I want Student Campus Life to care about Loving House's future. I want Ryan Lombardi to care about Loving House's future. I want the director of Res-Life and my supervisor to care about its success, and to care about the students beyond just saying "I care." But when we're making decisions, how is it impacting LGBTQ+ students? And I think recognizing that Loving House is not the only space for queer identifying individuals, like they're all over campus. And so I think also making Loving House a residential hub for students to come and engage in that way and provide them, the students, with connections to other resources. So that way, when a student leaves Loving House, they know that Loving House is a support resource. But there's the Resource Center. There are resources across Ithaca, both on campus and off campus, and people leaving the space knowing that "I feel supported and I feel the opposite of disenfranchised", right? "I am somebody who matters on this campus and people care about me and people advocate for me." And so ways that I've been thinking about "How do we make this space sustainable?" is currently like chairing a Loving House review group that's providing recommendations to Student Campus Life and the Provost side leadership on what are ways that we can make this space sustainable in the long run. How do we have really intentional collaborations with the LGBT Resource Center, the care in crisis with CAPS, with Cornell Health, to really think about how we're supporting our residents holistically and their identity development while they're in the space, but also again when they're outside of the space. [CAPS is Counseling & Psychological Services at Cornell Health] INTERVIEWER: That also makes me happy because I think that I literally moved into Loving House because I needed that and I found it. So that makes me really happy. And a follow up to that is: What stigmas, if any, did you face when founding Loving House or just like attitudes about Loving House generally? TAYLOR: I think overall it was a pretty positive experience on campus, as I'm sure you can find in other interviews and things. Loving House was a long time coming. There's a lot of history surrounding queer advocacy on campus, particularly related to a program house for queer students, which started in 1992-1993, and was actually shut down. And then it kind of like went into this hibernation mode where it was like a sleeping bear. INTERVIEWER: Wait, it existed? TAYLOR: What? INTERVIEWER: Loving House? TAYLOR: No. There- INTERVIEWER: Oh, the fight for Loving House. TAYLOR: The proposal did. Yeah. And actually the proposal that was approved is very similar to the one that was presented in '92-'93. And so then when Ian Wallace, who was a student here at Cornell, realized they were opening up the new residence halls, so NCRE, [NCRE is the North Campus Residential Expansion Project] he thought that it was a really strategic time to say, "Hey, you're opening like 8000 new beds. Why don't you consider opening a LGBTQ+ space?" And so that's how it kind of happened. And then so people were getting back on track. People were really excited. I think the biggest thing across the nation is there's a debate about this idea of identity or affinity-based housing and are we segregating students, are we limiting their opportunity to engage with those who are different from them? Are we limiting students from learning about each other's experiences by creating these spaces? And so there's two schools of thought, and I think there are positives and negatives to both. But I do think at a predominantly white institution where there are a lot of students who come from underserved and "minoritized" backgrounds, having these affinity based and identity based spaces are really important. And having intersectional programming and intentionality around the ways that we connect those spaces to other affinity spaces, but also to the rest of North Campus. We can have both. Like you can have a safe space to live and engage with those that are different than you. And so I think that's the way that I've been able to overcome like that adversity. There were some hesitations around like, "Is Loving House going to be a space for white gay men only, or cis white gay men?" And that was actually really hard to navigate with the students because- I was like, I don't know who's going to apply. But- INTERVIEWER: But you can't be like "You're a cis white gay man, you're not allowed to be here." TAYLOR: Right, right. I actually think Loving House is very diverse. I think we have a wide range of people that come from many different identities and come together, and this space is just beautiful. Like, I love Loving House, and I love seeing every year, the different students that make up our in-house and out-of-house membership. And I think that those concerns have not come to light. The other concern was around safety for our students and how will we navigate having an identity based space in a first year hall. And I think people didn't give first year students enough credit in just thinking that, yeah, first year students have a lot of identity development to do, but I also think they're not inherently evil and biased. [LAUGHTER] Some are, right? But I don't think that there's an overwhelming majority of people that are, and that also hasn't been a concern. INTERVIEWER: We're not evil, I promise. [LAUGHTER] INTERVIEWER: Can you talk more about any response from students specifically, like the whiteboard- Lori was talking about how kids were writing some slurs on the whiteboard or on the lawn outside. Do you remember any of that? TAYLOR: I don't remember the whiteboard. I do remember there were swastikas- Three years ago? And I don't think it was related to Loving House, but it was placed right outside of Appel, in between Mews and Appel. This is before Loving House opened. And so it was a concern about "Is this related to the recent announcement?" INTERVIEWER: Was it, like, right after? TAYLOR: It was very close, but there were also multiple swastikas happening in different areas across North Campus. INTERVIEWER: So it might have just been a bad coincidence, but- TAYLOR: Yeah. But still, there's an impact, right? Like, this is a space that's supposed to be safe for these individuals. There was also, parents- Parents, I think, were the biggest hurdle around like, "What do you mean this is in Mews Hall?" INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I was going to ask, like, have there been any parents that are like, "I don't want my kids to live in Mews because of..." TAYLOR: Yup. There were. INTERVIEWER: Like how they just contacted you and asked about it? TAYLOR: They actually haven't contacted me. They contacted, like, the main housing office. And there were things like "Given the recent changes to Mews Hall, I wondering if my daughter could be moved to CKB?" And Mews Hall was always this hot commodity of - granted, the new buildings are open - but Mews and CKB are still highly sought after. So the fact that people were trying to not live in Mews... was interesting. And to me, granted, I grew up in downstate New York where it's a pretty liberal area. I never lived a life where I saw like blatant homophobia and transphobia to that extent, where somebody didn't want to live in a building. And so I think that was a learning curve for me of like, how do I challenge parents or people- How do I stand up for Loving House, right? And not just hear people say stuff like that and not say anything. And that can be hard, right? Because there's this weird power dynamic with parents. They're not students here - INTERVIEWER: But they're paying for students here. TAYLOR: I don't want to make them super angry cause that's not good. But like, no, let's talk about why you said that and let's have a conversation, unless they don't want to have one, right? You can't force anybody to have a conversation. But we never had any issues on move-in day or things like that. INTERVIEWER: I think it's really smart how you strategically kept Loving House like a secret on the move-in days, decoration-wise, for the students whose parents are homophobic or they're not out or whatever. I didn't know that was intentional. How did you come up with that idea? TAYLOR: That was actually feedback from the students, and we had a really interesting conversation about what's the purpose of Loving House and how do you navigate people who are really proud to live there and want to be out and proud and have rainbows everywhere? And how do you then balance that with students who are terrified to tell their parents? And so we had a lot of conversations of like at some point, Loving House may not be the right place for you where you're at developmentally with your identity, right? Like if you're so not out... We can't hide Loving House. Like, it exists. If you Google Mews Hall you know that Loving House is there. How do you balance the two and how do you navigate conversations with students? Because there were a handful that were like, "No, you have to hide Loving House." And then there was another handful that were like, "No, we want to be proud." And so we had some really good conversations around safety and how do we prioritize people's safety. We can be out and proud Loving House 364 days of the year, but on this one day, let's prioritize the rest of the space's safety. So that's where that came from. INTERVIEWER: Okay. I think that's smart. I know personally my parents would - I don't know if they would stop me, but they would throw a fit with me if they knew I was going to go live specifically in the queer dorm. Um, yeah. So I appreciate that. TAYLOR: Which is interesting because I don't really understand why? INTERVIEWER: Because, okay, I know exactly why, but they won't tell me why. But I know why. Because they want me to branch out away from the queer community. I can't really - It's harder to do that. There's less chance of me doing that if I'm living in a queer space. TAYLOR: Well, that's another thing that came up is how do we fight these stigmas around, like the LGBTQ+ community? Like fight against that? "Oh, they're too much." Or, oh, like vibrant. You can be queer and not being vibrant. I think it's the correlation but not causation. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're flamboyant. But we associate a lot of things together. And so having really critical conversations, which I hope we can continue to do in Loving House around, one, really pulling apart like gender and sexuality because there's so intertwined in our brains, but they're different. And it's a societal thing like. I identify as a cis woman and I'm feminine and I'm queer and like, those are separate things, but we've conflated them because society is like- Like this idea of straight passing. Just because you're a feminine woman means you have to be straight, and that's not true. And so, like, I think Loving House is a great space to have those conversations and to really challenge our students in a comfortable, like in your pajamas, let's come and talk about like these things that are happening and unpack it. Like, I think a lot about- I'm 27. And to me, my concept of family is still like, "Oh, I have to marry a man to have babies." That's because society ingrains that in you. And so it takes a long time to unpack it and work through it, and I think that's why Loving House is so special, because we have opportunities to do that. And I didn't have an opportunity to do that until I opened this space. So the fact that you get to do that at 18 or 19 is really cool. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: It really is. And I think, I mean, for a while I was 17. So I think it's being able to be young and intersectional and not have to worry about my past or if I was trying to literally lock my doors and try to stay away from the homophobic Trump loving person. And I'm glad that Loving House gave me that. And something else that I want to follow up on is what is the most interesting thing that a student has told you about Loving House? TAYLOR: Interesting? [LAUGHTER] INTERVIEWER: However you want to define that. [PAUSE] Are you okay? [LAUGHTER] TAYLOR: I'm thinking. [LAUGHTER] To me like the most impactful thing- INTERVIEWER: Yes, sure. That works too. TAYLOR: -is that every student I have ever talked to about Loving House leaves, feeling like it was an accepting place. INTERVIEWER: Well, of course it is. TAYLOR: That means I did the job, right? INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I think another thing that people would bring up is, oh, is it just performative? Like, that's how you know it's real. TAYLOR: Yeah. Like, students leave saying that. So before we opened Loving House, I did a presentation on the development of it. And somebody asked me, "How would you assess its success?" And I'm like, I don't know. We have all these assessment tools and instruments, but how would I know it was successful? And I think in my first year I saw a lot of students work through their gender identity development. Like there was a handful of students who came in identifying as cis female or cis male, and left the space identifying as non-binary or trans. And then I was like. They felt safe doing that here. And so, like, even though there wasn't anecdotal data from them, like the fact that that was happening at a higher rate than it was Mews, that means to me that would indicate that there's some level of safety. But then hearing students - we did like quote collection because I was nominated as Advisor of the Year, and so we reached out to a bunch of students to get quotes about me. Every single student basically thanked me for setting up a safe space. And so I think that is the most interesting thing. And not tooting my own horn, but - INTERVIEWER: You have a lot to toot your horn about though. TAYLOR: One student said to me. Because I'm unapologetically myself, as their leader, people feel inspired to be unapologetically themselves. And to know that I could have that impact on that space. Just empowered me to keep leading with that authenticity and vulnerability because it made it that people could be themselves. And it's so hard to not be yourself for so long, that if I could have that impact on anybody, that's incredible. And was like, yeah, I did it right. Like, I don't know what I did- [LAUGHTER] TAYLOR: -and I hope that I could figure out what I did so it can keep happening. I want to think that it's not just me who makes Loving House what it is. INTERVIEWER: I'm so scared that it is. TAYLOR: I don't think so. INTERVIEWER: I don't think it is. I think you're a big part of it and I think you're the reason it holds together. But I think after a certain point, Loving House is Loving House. And I think that's what you made it to be. TAYLOR: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: I'm gonna cry. INTERVIEWER: Me too honestly. INTERVIEWER: Well like for me as well, I needed that space and it just made me really happy. And I think also, I don't know if you still have it, but you know how there was a shirtless poster guy over there. TAYLOR: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] Zac Efron. INTERVIEWER: Over summer, that was the first thing I saw when I came to Mews Hall, because I lived on this side and they were like, "Who's Taylor?" Yeah, she must really like this shirtless guy. TAYLOR: No, my students put it there. INTERVIEWER: I feel like you make everything a lot happier. TAYLOR: Thank you. INTERVIEWER: You're a role model for literally everyone. TAYLOR: Nooo. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Like I asked upperclass people. INTERVIEWER: Upperclass people? TAYLOR: Well, I was going to say men, but then, no. But I was already partway through it. Like what dorms they lived in their first year of that when they said Mews like, oh, so you know Taylor. Yeah! I know Taylor. I love Taylor, I'm like, do you know Olivia too? And they're like, who? I'm like it's just Taylor's dog. You should know her, but it's okay. [LAUGHTER] INTERVIEWER: Yeah. And I think there was one question that we asked this a while ago but why there's no separate keycard for Loving House? [LAUGHTER] TAYLOR: One, because logistically I don't think it would work because of the way the building is set up. INTERVIEWER: Yeah.. okay. [LAUGHTER] INTERVIEWER: You're like, "okay". INTERVIEWER: Do you have anything else that you would like to add on that we didn't hit? TAYLOR: I don't think so. I guess like the biggest thing is Loving House means so much to so many people. And I'm so in it. I'm like- I think the phrase is 'flying the plane while building it.' [LAUGHTER] INTERVIEWER: That's a phrase? TAYLOR: And so that's been me - building the plane while flying it or something. I don't know. That's been me since Loving House started. And sometimes it's really hard to just take a step back and look at it and reflect. And I think, like, this provides me with an opportunity to do that. And I can't believe how far it's come. I can't believe how successful it is. It is my greatest achievement, and it may be the greatest achievement of my life. Like just being able to do this and have this impact on students is, like- [PAUSE] -incredible. And when they talk about this in 50 years, like that's nuts to me. I don't know if this needs to be on recording, but like, we're part of history and that's nuts. So it's just exciting and I'm really excited to see where it goes. And like, I'm excited to listen to this in 50 years and be like, "Wow, my voice is squeaky" and just look at where this space has come. INTERVIEWER: I have a feeling that a lot of this stuff is going to end up in the archives because I've been going through a lot of that stuff for like another class and I got some things. I requested some audio recordings. I thought it was going to be a digital file, like a USB or CD, I pick it up. It's a cassette. [LAUGHTER] I was like, help. I don't know how to - what is this? TAYLOR: I wouldn't even know how to do that. INTERVIEWER: Exactly. And I have a feeling that later on, someone will listen to this in whatever ancient iPhone. They'll be like, "What is an iPhone?" But it's just like there's a lot of things in there about how different program houses were found. Like Loving House and LLC and a lot of that stuff and a lot of it comes from like historical. So yeah. TAYLOR: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. TAYLOR: Thank you! INTERVIEWER: Bye! INTERVIEWER: I'm recording again. [LAUGHTER] I came up with another question. How did the forming of our class come? Like, how did that come to be? TAYLOR: How did the what? INTERVIEWER: You know, our gay class, how did that? TAYLOR: Yes- INTERVIEWER: Our gay class? [LAUGHTER] INTERVIEWER: -how did that birth? [LAUGHTER] Words. TAYLOR: Yeah, so at Stony Brook, I was a part of the undergraduate colleges, so the first year experience program, and we had a first year seminar course that all students had to take in their first year. And it was really great at like orienting students towards what it means to be a college student. It wasn't related to their colleges or anything. It was like, how do you live on campus? How do you engage with others, thinking about identity development? Like, it was a whole range of topics and I love teaching those. Then I came to Cornell and I learned there was no first year seminar. And a lot of schools have a first year seminar. INTERVIEWER: Oh, really? TAYLOR: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: I thought, yeah, well, we do, but we don't. It's the advising seminar. It's only for arts and sciences, and literally you don't do anything. TAYLOR: Every college is different. Yeah. And then Lori told me that the Mews RHD before me taught in optimizing the first year experience for just like any student and that it was a hit. And so then we decided- I thought about loving house. And I was like, oh my God, we need a Loving House course. Because the best practice for a living learning communities is to have a course associated with the class. And so this is unprecedented for Cornell. Loving House is the first program house to have a course. And it's the first program house to require all first years to take the course, which will be next year. INTERVIEWER: Hm? Hm? TAYLOR: All first years in the loving house will be taking the course. INTERVIEWER: Oh wow. TAYLOR: All first year students. INTERVIEWER: Oh, that's actually really nice. TAYLOR: Yeah, because that was the intent of who was supposed to be in it. But then we also wanted to open it to other first years, but then this year, second years didn't have real first year experience. And then we let second years join, and we didn't have it during pre-enroll, but we will next year. INTERVIEWER: Ok. INTERVIEWER: Oh so that's why you guys are scrambling for people? Cause you didn't- TAYLOR: Yeah. It wasn't open during pre-enroll. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I was like, how did I not find this earlier? INTERVIEWER: Cuz I was like why did I add it so late? INTERVIEWER: Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. TAYLOR: Yeah. So this class is like my baby. Like, I had this idea, I really wanted to do it. And then I was working on the proposal and March 2020- INTERVIEWER: Not COVID? TAYLOR: February 2020. INTERVIEWER: Oh okay. TAYLOR: Also COVID happened and I could not get anybody to do it with me. So I waited a year and then I tried again. And Claire agreed cause I had to have a faculty member sponsor. [LAUGHTER] And that's how the class came to be. INTERVIEWER: How did Kim come in? TAYLOR: Kim and I work on a lot of stuff together. We're both interested in supporting queer students, and I think we enjoy working with one another. So we thought it could be cool to co-instruct. But this class is definitely my baby. INTERVIEWER: I'm so glad you let other students join cause, like, I feel like that's how you get other people involved in Loving House and keep it running. TAYLOR: And I think out of house membership is so important. INTERVIEWER: Yeah. TAYLOR: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Bye!