SPEAKER 1: OK. So the first question we'd like to ask you is, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself and your time here at Cornell? SPEAKER 2: I was a nontraditional student that came back to Cornell. And I graduated from ILR in '97. And how I'm involved is that in-- I guess in about 1985, I-- well, in '81 I had my daughter, and I thought, if I'm going to tell her to be honest with herself, then I need to be honest with myself. And I was-- had been married knowing that I was gay, but didn't-- there was no Facebook, there was no-- there was nothing. I didn't even know anyone that I could even speak to to figure out how to come out or how to be or what community. But when I had her, at that moment in the labor room, I was like, OK, out I come. So within the year, I left my marriage. And my ex-husband, when I was honest and said that the reason why I wanted to end the marriage, him and his family were very upset and wanted to take my daughter from me on the basis because I was gay. So I-- there was-- I was prepared for that. I knew that that's probably what was going to happen. So I had been working in the community. I had found out that there was-- like teas and casual social meetings, but nothing political going on. So I worked to organize the community. I mean, it sounds far-fetched, but it's really what happened. I called for a meeting, and it was at the Women's Community Building, Downtown Ithaca, which is across from the Dewitt Mall now-- it's something else. And about 400 people showed up. And it was to work to figure out how to have protection, how to-- because up until when the law was passed in '92, you could be fired, lose your job, be kicked out of your apartment, the whole thing just because you were LGB. Not T because that wasn't factored in-- hi. How are you? SPEAKER 3: I'm good. How are you? SPEAKER 2: Good. Nice to meet you. Should I stop or what? SPEAKER 3: No, no, please continue. SPEAKER 2: OK. So it's called-- we propose something and it was called Local Law C. And it was an ordinance-- it was the first one in the country. And so I have all the documentation of that. I was not at Cornell at the time. But I worked with Cornell student leaders, and at the college, it was a coalition of many different organizations and individual people. And the first time the law-- the ordinance in front of the county legislator-- legislature failed by a couple of votes. And then we had to work a lot to continue to educate and to bring visibility to the issues. And the second time it passed, and it did become the first ordinance in the country. During that time, I then applied to-- I went to ILR and I continued my work with students who were there. And that's where-- at the time, that was Carla. And that's that part where her voice is called-- Carla Guzman-- why-- she was the president, and I don't remember the name of the student group I was seeing. There's been so many different names for different groups, but Carla was the driving force behind wanting-- we wanted to have more-- a house, like the Loving House. And so the takeover at Day Hall, if we're going to jump to that, that started with the artists. Do you know that story? OK. Hmm. I feel like I'm going to do a drive-by of your history, so you're going to have to-- we're going to have to probably-- you're going to have to put these pieces together. But there was an artist display on the Art Squad by a Latino artist and it was defaced. And Cornell's response to it was minimal at best. And so what happened was is that a lot of culmination of a lot of events that had not been addressed around discrimination brought a lot of coalitions together. And the past dean of the law school, did you know his history at all? OK. Yeah. So I'm feeling really bad because I can't-- like, this is like the history of the communities that's really important. So Dean Pendevar-- or Pendevar-- Pender, he just left the law school, but he was I think like the student representative of the Catholic Students Association and something else also. And Carla. And so these groups came together and we walked to Day Hall, and the dean of the Law School, he was also up for a Rhodes scholar application. And so he put that on the line for-- also. And for like three days, students stayed inside Day Hall, and to bring visibility to discrimination that was happening on campus, but also, a list of demands. And I filmed the inside of that and what's happening. So if you go to the Day Hall takeover and there's video-- you can find it on YouTube. So I think that's important when you're piecing all this together and to look at the history. So one of the demands was to have the Latino Living Center and a house also for the LGB-- because I'm saying T wasn't like in the lexicon of trying to understand-- like we missed the boat on that completely back in the '90s for sure. So the compromise that we got, the Latino Living Center was founded, but we got an office. And that's-- and it's not what we wanted. And I think that it's being celebrated the wrong way, I'll just say this, because that was a complete compromise. And not that we compromised, it's just-- that's what we got, I guess. So there was-- the office, I think-- the first time it was in Anabelle Taylor in the basement. It's what, it's 626 now? It was some other place also. So all, for 20 years or more, there was the continuous ask to have the Loving House, which we didn't have a name, but we wanted those resources also. So it just-- it didn't happen. So that's my very short version of what was happening. So I'm not sure what-- I mean, I think it's really important that you speak with Carla because you're going to get the rich history of that piece because she was in those negotiations. I was a nontraditional student, so I was in a different place. I still connected with Carla, but it feels to me a little bit like a woman of color's voice is being erased in this process. And in the history of the movement at Cornell, like you all not even-- not knowing about the takeover or all of these pieces just brings more visibility to that for me, do you what I mean? Yeah. SPEAKER 3: Is it OK if we move on to the next question? SPEAKER 2: Uh huh. SPEAKER 3: So our next question for you is, how did you start working at Cornell? And why did you specifically choose to work in Student Programs? SPEAKER 2: Well, because I'm a community activist first. I was-- during this time with Local Law C, I also became a Tompkins County Human Rights Commissioner. And so when a job came available working with student-run social justice programs, it was like a perfect fit for me. It was absolutely what I wanted to do. And so I've worked-- I've worked in this position since 1999. So yes. SPEAKER 1: So you talked a little bit about-- I'm sorry to slightly jump, but you were talking about Loving House students sort of precursor, like the initial ask. But it's like-- I guess it's creation-- 2019-ish? I guess, were you involved with the creation of the Loving House? Or was that-- SPEAKER 2: No. I knew nothing about it. Read about it in the paper. So-- I mean, so that's the other thing, you know what I mean? So there's who-- not just me, but also other alum who-- that was their lives fighting for this were not involved in-- I know I keep saying Carla, but, I mean, no story is complete around this without talking to Carla. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't even been there, which is-- I feel-- I feel bad about it, but it's like-- I don't know like how-- like I would want to go with Carla to it, you know what I mean? I think it would be-- close the circle a little bit for alum who fought for it, you know what I mean? So yeah, it would be it would be victorious. Yeah. SPEAKER 3: So even though you haven't been there yet, you know that Loving House was created just a few years ago. And what does that mean to you personally knowing that there is a queer living space now? SPEAKER 2: Oh, I mean, I just think about all of the students that didn't have this opportunity, that didn't have this, I would say, even protection, the safety of being able to be in the house so you could be yourself and not-- because there's so many-- I just remember so many students that in the different dorms, the struggle that they went through and just the discrimination that they faced, which then it hemorrhages into academics, it hemorrhages into everything. So to have a safer space-- I'm not saying safe space, but a safer space for students was always the goal, to create an equal opportunity of having a place where you can be yourself and be able to thrive, not just trying to figure out how to survive. Yeah. SPEAKER 1: I'm sorry. Is there anything that you'd like to say to students of the Loving House? I know that sometimes there's-- we learn a bit about it in the class, but there's been a lot of innovation with history and stuff. Is there anything that-- SPEAKER 2: To make sure that it's maintained, because it was-- and I'm only talking about since '92, but even before that, you know what I mean? The amount of discrimination that took place for students. So I guess you're standing on the shoulders like I was standing on the shoulders of the people before me, and it's important to make sure that you understand the magnitude of the privilege that you have to have this space, but at the same time, make sure that other students also have that access and privilege, because it's-- I mean, it's a privilege to be at Cornell, not just at the Loving House. But to ensure the future of the house so that never again the students not having a safer place to be able to live and learn is imperative. Yeah. And to hold the university accountable when things aren't going well and that you're not-- if there is discrimination happening, just because you have the house doesn't mean that discrimination has ended by any means. Yeah. SPEAKER 1: It's still-- and we certainly, question-wise, this is what we had to ask, but we'd also like to ask, what would you like to include? And especially if there's anything else that we haven't asked. We know that we might particularly not have covered everything that's-- SPEAKER 2: Well, I think that it is important that Loving House understand how you got there. So in all of that history, and to contact students who-- alum who were involved many years before to be able to understand your history. I also have all these documents that I was going to turn into the library, but I think that-- that have been asked for a long time, how Local Law C came about. And I think there's quite a few things that-- quite a few documents I have from The Sun, also that some really atrocious discriminatory editorials that took place against the community and the response back. But just all of the community-building and the student activism and student engagement that took place in order for you to be there and to have that house is really important. So I think that understanding your history and how you got there would-- it's imperative. Because if you don't understand your history, it's easy to let it go. And it's easy to not have those connections. And I also think that there's a plethora of alumni that want to connect with you, that it's really important that they be able to tell their story about what it was like, but also it's networking opportunities for you all. It's-- and it's places where they can support you. I hate to even say it, but it's money. It's resources for events. It's-- you know what I mean? So your history just isn't from the creation of Loving House, it's prior to that, and you should capitalize and access the resources that you have that you don't even know that you have. So there's the silent majority that's wanting to connect with you, but they don't have access. There isn't an invitation, and you also don't know your history, these pieces, that it's not your fault by any means. But I think it's-- I think it's important that you learn it. Yeah. Is this what you expected? Probably not. Is it? No. SPEAKER 1: A little bit. We had Taylor's input. So I'll be honest, originally no. And then I guess I'd been sick for a bit, so I scheduled a meeting, which was like, do I really want to talk to her? And then she-- and she told us around the time frame that you had been in, but not specific details. SPEAKER 2: Mm-hmm. SPEAKER 1: But it was definitely great to actually have a conversation, especially since we have had, I guess, like bits and pieces. I know that we had alum come in with a Zoom call on the 22nd, but again, it was like very informal. And one of the worst parts about it is we had this shoot, actually We had the threats to campus this-- SPEAKER 2: Oh. SPEAKER 1: [INAUDIBLE] SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Yeah. SPEAKER 1: And that had really disrupted that event. And it was like, I guess, great to hear their stories, but again, the context was hard to have-- or we didn't have the context. And then it was only for like-- there were about five to eight students there. So I think formally speaking to them and-- SPEAKER 2: Were there anybody from back in the day or is it just recent-- SPEAKER 1: I think the earliest was '89. There was the first all-female/male frat. And actually, I can pull up a list. SPEAKER 2: Yeah, I'd like to-- SPEAKER 1: Because I had taken a picture. Yeah, here it is. And I've got to be careful because I don't want to-- some students may not want to be-- SPEAKER 2: Oh yeah. SPEAKER 1: --named. However, we have everybody from like class of '13, '14. So Valetta Crow, Daniel-- or Leah, who's class of '15. And then two more from the class of '13. And then we had-- OK, so from 1998, I'm sorry, not '89. We had Darcy Gurley. And she had basically been in the first-- I guess it was either not gendered or female frat. And so she talked about her experience there. And it was cool to hear how she found a subcommunity, and maybe not entirely accepting, but at least it was easier for her to be herself in that community if that makes sense. SPEAKER 2: Oh yeah, absolutely. Well that's why I'm pushing for Carla, because the strategic planning and what her role was and who-- and she will give you 50 names or so of other students who were involved also. I mean, I was very involved, but my involvement first was Local Law C so we could get the ordnance and have that happen. Did you all know about Local Law C? The first ordnance? Yeah. So those are pieces also that are really important. And there were people prior to me that were-- there was something-- I think they were called ZAPs where there was people in the local community that were students that would stand up in the middle of a lecture and say, I'm a lesbian. And it would be in Bio or something. Nothing-- you know what I mean? So they were called ZAPs. So it was bringing-- ZAP people, people were like, what? And so all the kind of pre-organizing back in the day kind of stuff that you know that happened and who was involved and who were leaders in the community in Ithaca and across the nation. Like, it would be-- I would advocate that you learn that history and be able to hear it, you know what I mean? Who is the professor that's working on this? Like what class is this? Huh? SPEAKER 1: I'm going to Canvas and I will pull it up. He had wrote about-- I'm going to actually go down here. Oh. Interesting. This might not have been originally planned on the schedule. Yeah. OK. So we had thoughts. Probably the density of women. OK. OK. I think it's Dr. Stephen Vider. SPEAKER 2: I don't know him. SPEAKER 1: And I'm trying to make sure that I have the correct name. However, Google, it autocorrected to the video. Yes. This is definitely him. So right now he's the assistant professor [INAUDIBLE]. No, he's the assistant professor of history and Director of the Public History Initiative at Cornell. So-- SPEAKER 2: But he's not gay? SPEAKER 1: No. He-- well-- SPEAKER 2: He is gay? Oh, I didn't know if you-- if this is why he had this-- I don't know him, but-- not that I know every queer professor at Cornell. But you also have a history of-- that you-- I guess you don't know also, is trans history and who the leaders in the country were started at Cornell. So Paisley Curran, Shannon Minter. You know those names at all? SPEAKER 1: I do not. SPEAKER 2: Yeah. So-- and Paisley just-- her book-- his book just came out. Paisley Curran, if you look that up. And he's teaching in New York. Do you see that? Do you see his name at all? SPEAKER 1: Paisley Curran. Like C-U-R-I-- SPEAKER 2: I think it's C-U-R-R-A-N. SPEAKER 1: Paisley Curran. SPEAKER 2: And Shannon Minter, look at his stuff. They were involved in Local Law C, they were involved in the everything that you have right now. Do you see Paisley's book? SPEAKER 1: I see a Professor Currah at the Graduate Center at SUNY. So Brooklyn College. SPEAKER 2: Yes. SPEAKER 1: And his book is Transgender Studies-- like-- SPEAKER 2: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: --editor on Transgender Studies Quarterly. And then-- SPEAKER 2: No, but there's a book. SPEAKER 1: It's-- he has published articles in a couple of journals to [INAUDIBLE]. SPEAKER 2: No, I just-- he-- this is the book. SPEAKER 1: OK. SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Paisley and Shannon were-- is your history also. So I'm-- do you know what I mean? So I think-- I mean one of the things I was just thinking, if there is a way to-- even-- it's a suggestion here. But in the spring semester, if there is a way to have Carla-- Carla, her father just passed. She's from Puerto Rico. She has the church. She was an engineering student at Cornell, and then switched and is now the pastor of St. mark and St. Andrew's? I never get the two saints names right, but-- or St. Paul's on the Upper West Side-- I think it's West 86th Street in New York. It's the original church from West Side Story, actually, when-- it was burnt down during some-- the community-- well, there's a long story with it. So Carla runs this church also. Has-- so it's very important. It's one of the first churches that was open to the community, it's one of the first churches that was open to undocumented people. So creating all sorts of resources. So-- but what I would suggest is that the main people who were involved in some pieces at Cornell, that you invite them to an event. I would, before I hand in all of the documents to the archives at Cornell, would rather first bring them to Loving House and you all look at them and you decide what you would like to keep, what you want copies of, and what-- before they're transferred without your knowledge, is the start to finish of many things, is to start to finish your Local Law C. It's the work that happened to-- in the Day Hall takeover. It's all-- it's all that kind of stuff. So I think it would be important for you to connect-- talk to Shannon, talk to Paisley. You're going to get lots of different names, but you're going to create a history that's really important. Yeah. And especially around just thinking Paisley and Shannon. Not knowing that they were Cornellians, and the work that they have done in the movement.